tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post5067187716636604680..comments2024-03-14T02:53:31.171+00:00Comments on Tom Bennett's School Report: Jamie's Dream School 7: What have we learned?Tom Bennetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03211959016018081924noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-90940511280627250642011-04-20T09:15:33.605+01:002011-04-20T09:15:33.605+01:00I laughed so much reading this. Totally agree - th...I laughed so much reading this. Totally agree - this should be in a book somewhere as it's too valuable to read on a blog.. Thank you for entertaining me with such wit and thought!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-42970597683719785242011-04-18T23:17:17.143+01:002011-04-18T23:17:17.143+01:00And we'll try 'woolly', shall we?And we'll try 'woolly', shall we?Tom Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211959016018081924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-52223797267391202032011-04-18T21:31:14.416+01:002011-04-18T21:31:14.416+01:00@Nube on the QT
They most certainly do bloody not...@Nube on the QT<br /><br />They most certainly do bloody not. I'm putting together a few pieces on how dodgy social science is used to justify people's various agendas. Restorative Justice is one example of a wooly idea that some people claim can solve many more problems than it actually can. Any school that used a RJ system to maintain order is doomed to failure, as your experience shows. <br /><br />My advice: look for a school that deserves you. The studies don't show what they claim. Because they don't exist.Tom Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211959016018081924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-6635735749138258532011-04-18T21:08:15.154+01:002011-04-18T21:08:15.154+01:00I'm an NQT in a rather 'challenging' u...I'm an NQT in a rather 'challenging' urban school, and watching Jamie's Dream School I thought "finally, here's a documentary showing just what we're up against". I'm no saint, and I'm certainly not on a mission to change the world. I do however have a passion for learning and for imparting learning; my experience so far this academic year has been that education is far more about politics than passion.<br /><br />It's not a new experience, and I'm not the first to think it, but living it really brings it home. The restorative justice policies that are the focus of our school's behavioural management system are nothing more than lip-service. It's even admitted to the students by senior management that it's just lip-service. The reason? "Because studies show that it is just as much of a sanction to keep them for 5 minutes than an hour, and it's just as much of a example to get them to pay lip-service as it is for them to mean an apology".<br /><br />This fundamentally goes against everything I believe. The kids are rude, abusive, disruptive and sometimes violent. On talking to them they express that they desperately want clear boundaries with clear structure, yet the system of restorative justice makes them feel uncared for and unruly.<br /><br />Do studies show that?Nube on the QThttp://nubeontheqt.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-42246596860018578772011-04-18T15:48:29.379+01:002011-04-18T15:48:29.379+01:00Hahahahahahahhahaha a 24 yr old "freelancer&q...Hahahahahahahhahaha a 24 yr old "freelancer" and a 21 yr old student with no educational background whatsoever (other than having been a naughty boy in school) know exactly what schools need? <br /><br />Priceless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-22754195154716806512011-04-17T16:25:47.351+01:002011-04-17T16:25:47.351+01:00@ Changethefuture
'The stuff you say against ...@ Changethefuture<br /><br />'The stuff you say against student voice reminds me why I've devoted my life to fixing secondary education, primarily by giving young people the reins (hopefully not hiring staff like you).'<br /><br />'I'm gutted that there's techers as who are so sure of themselves as you when i already know from what you've written that you have no real personal insight into the lives of a kid like me or like Angelique.'<br /><br />Cheers for that. <br /><br />On a positive note, I applaud your spunk, and the dedication required to launch a project like Changethefuture off the pad. I think you need to be careful not to imagine that nobody has ever considered the kind of issues you care about: Rousseau was writing about just what you describe centuries ago.<br /><br />There are many great students I teach who have intelligent, articulate opinions about teaching; there are also many who are selfish and short-sighted, more concerned with their immediate comfort than their long term interests. Which ones do we listen to? <br /><br />The job of adults, and teachers specifically is to select and impart the best of what the world has learned since learning began. Then, when the students become adults, they can decide what they want to pass on to the next generation. That's why we decide how, and what to teach. Children start off with no empirical knowledge and the common sense of a bee. We guide them into a state of maturity and hopefully greater understanding. Until babies are born with the wisdom of Solomon, that's the template we follow. As you get older, you DO get wiser; the mistake that every new generation makes is to imagine that they are the first to exist, and that they are exceptional, misunderstood, and somehow different and special to everyone that has come before.<br /><br />Have you ever taught in a state school? In a challenging class? It is, I have to say, a very different world than you expect. <br /><br />But anyway; good luck with your project. I will remember not to send my resume to your Free school.Tom Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211959016018081924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-45917353050549119562011-04-17T04:13:13.273+01:002011-04-17T04:13:13.273+01:00It's a shame that you think student voice is b...It's a shame that you think student voice is bad when you work in education. I'm also disappointed in you for feeling Angelique shouldn't have got another chance.<br /><br />I started out in a pretty typical comprehensive before falling through the cracks and ending up in trouble with the police and moving from one pupil referral unit to the other.<br /><br />I'm gutted that there's techers as who are so sure of themselves as you when i already know from what you've written that you have no real personal insight into the lives of a kid like me or like Angelique. But anyway, she was good at 10 downing street wasnt she?? I thought she really changed herself for the better and totally rose to the challenge.<br /><br />The stuff you say against student voice reminds me why I've devoted my life to fixing secondary education, primarily by giving young people the reins (hopefully not hiring staff like you).<br /><br />It's cool that you care, you probably just need to check out a few different approaches to education. After my desperate single mum moved me to an entirely democratic school, I made the same u turn that pretty much all drop outs make when they're allowed to do what thry want until the novelty wears off. It's pretty simple. You just need an environment full of respect and inspiration.<br /><br />If I could change one thing about school, it'd be to change our dysfunctional understanding of discipline. Discipline isn't a fear of a cane, or something that appears in you when you don't get to go to downing street despite apologizing. It's a by product of bring a driven, good person, and its a genuine change. Genuine (lasting) change can only come by inspiration.ChangeTheFuturehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16951453922266291587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-76146843668101915232011-04-16T20:26:58.673+01:002011-04-16T20:26:58.673+01:00'...I think it's still important to keep a...'...I think it's still important to keep a drop of sympathy and love for them, as with all human beings...'<br /><br />I agree with just about everything you've said, especially the use of the word 'drop' in conjunction with 'sympathy and love'. And don't they make that difficult! I wish there was some discussion with young people like this, of just how off-putting their behaviour is; how their own attitudes turn off people's desire to help them. It was all very well for the Dream School personnel, who only had to deal with them for a couple of hours a week for a few weeks; their reputations and careers didn't depend on the reactions and responses of these examples of 'Student Voice', and of a management who are only too ready to listen to that voice. But REAL teachers, and REAL colleagues in the future, won't feel much REAL empathy for their in-your-face disrespect and mouthiness.... and these kids need as much empathy as they can get!hybrasilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00905099941515598477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-46846454908956627652011-04-15T17:42:03.857+01:002011-04-15T17:42:03.857+01:00@RJR
Yes, I noticed that too! Thanks for commenti...@RJR<br /><br />Yes, I noticed that too! Thanks for commenting.Tom Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211959016018081924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-75746833551124779252011-04-15T17:35:24.208+01:002011-04-15T17:35:24.208+01:00Very interesting read! I agree with most of your c...Very interesting read! I agree with most of your comments. I can see both sides of why Angelique needed to go. On the one hand to make the mantra of the program "no one left out" work but on the other far more persuasive side you cant reward bad behaviour. Sad too, that the reason she really wanted to go, was to get of with one of the lads on the bus ! <br /><br /> <a href="http://rjrdaydreamer.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">RJRDaydreamer</a>John Tealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09873356271475934162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-67605155370974892042011-04-15T16:51:37.586+01:002011-04-15T16:51:37.586+01:00@citizenr
I don't know. Where have you been? ...@citizenr<br /><br />I don't know. Where have you been? I'll take a look, thanks.Tom Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211959016018081924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-31248816755118960402011-04-15T14:17:50.405+01:002011-04-15T14:17:50.405+01:00Why haven't I discovered you before? we have d...Why haven't I discovered you before? we have differing views on some things (student voice!) but similar on others. Pop by and look at my verdict on Dream School if you have a mo. I'm off to read some more of your posts.<br />http://citizenr.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/dream-school-2/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-15207772960332828612011-04-15T11:31:17.416+01:002011-04-15T11:31:17.416+01:00Thanks for the comment,Anonymous.
'I feel you...Thanks for the comment,Anonymous.<br /><br />'I feel you may have been a little hard on John Dewey in your previous post.'<br /><br />Possibly. He wasn't as hard core as some of the neo-Deweyists (nice neologism) who caught the ball he passed and ran with it. But he was one of the key progenitors of the mess we're in now. I mean, I'm sure he was a nice guy and all. <br /><br />There's a great line in his Wiki bio:<br /><br />'After two years as a high school teacher in Oil City, Pennsylvania and one teaching elementary school in a small town in Vermont, Dewey decided that he was unsuited for employment in primary or secondary education.'<br /><br />So, after a short period in teaching, he decided he wasn't cut out for it. And then decided to write lots of books about how beastly education was, and we had to turn it upside down.<br /><br />I think I'll be a sh*t carpenter for a couple of years, and then write a book about how everyone's doing it wrong, and the point of carpentry isn't, say, building shelves and wardrobes, but to discuss how wardrobes and shelves make us feel. And then watch as everyone's books fall down.Tom Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211959016018081924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-8412715928911556272011-04-15T11:24:20.926+01:002011-04-15T11:24:20.926+01:00@ Marc
'The tragedy is that these kids are in...@ Marc<br /><br />'The tragedy is that these kids are infantalised emotionally, yet have a reflexive 'adult' conception of their human rights. It's this sense of entitlement that really has to be investigated as to how it takes root.'<br /><br />True. While it's easy to rant at the kids (oh, so, so easy), I think it's still important to keep a drop of sympathy and love for them, as with all human beings, and to feel desperately sorry that they have been so poorly served in the formative period of their lives. They start as clay, and are moulded to the whims of their potters, however careless and selfish. But by the time they reach the cusp of adulthood (as these all have) then the past is a foreign country- there's nothing to be done about it. The question is, what next? The answers lie in their own hands, no one else's.Tom Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211959016018081924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-12766622509975748182011-04-15T11:19:02.124+01:002011-04-15T11:19:02.124+01:00@Fran
'I've really enjoyed watching this, ...@Fran<br />'I've really enjoyed watching this, too, partly because I knew a lot of non-teachers were also watching and it's good for them to see how it can be with the low-level (and sometimes high-level) disruption.'<br /><br />I think that was one of the USPs of this series; Oliver's media-guzzling profile dragging behaviour into the spotlight. Noticeably, most commentators have seen exactly what they wanted to see from this project, which in a way makes it not unlike the process of reading tea leaves or Rorschach blots. The viewer's own prejudices or presumptions are reflected right back at them. I, of course, am immune to this process :)Tom Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211959016018081924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-355410693097089962011-04-15T10:50:40.085+01:002011-04-15T10:50:40.085+01:00Another good post. I agree with much of what you s...Another good post. I agree with much of what you say. <br /><br />I feel you may have been a little hard on John Dewey in your previous post. My understanding is that he was much less keen on child led learning than his contemporaries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dewey#On_education. (I appreciate the quality of the source material may be questionable.) I also think that the problems of education in the early 20th century were very different from those we face now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-1869931570124119862011-04-15T00:39:19.947+01:002011-04-15T00:39:19.947+01:00All fair enough, but the rot sets in in their home...All fair enough, but the rot sets in in their homes and by secondary schooling it's too late unless someone can connect with them.<br /><br />Have you watched the extended poetry recital 'lesson' on YouTube. The desperate hunger & yearning in several of them to reach out to their parents was gobsmackingly illustrative. It wasn't just Henry, Emmy (I think) wanted to pen one to her Dad etc etc. Last week Angelique was accused of acting like a 10 year old and lo and behold she opened up to how her father walked out when she was hey presto -10. Put that in your pipe and smoke it Sigmund Freud. <br /><br />The tragedy is that these kids are infantalised emotionally, yet have a reflexive 'adult' conception of their human rights. It's this sense of entitlement that really has to be investigated as to how it takes root. Lessons in parenting too would be nice, but that's just never going to happen. Their parents are too busy pursuing their own failings/pleasures to devote much useful time to their offspring.<br /><br />Thanks for your thoughtful post.<br /><br />marc nashSulci Collectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03293833259808943096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3019828684971971203.post-87056912856341480192011-04-14T21:19:07.605+01:002011-04-14T21:19:07.605+01:00I was waiting to see what your final verdict would...I was waiting to see what your final verdict would be. I've really enjoyed watching this, too, partly because I knew a lot of non-teachers were also watching and it's good for them to see how it can be with the low-level (and sometimes high-level) disruption. I shall miss Dream School. I guess I'll just have to go away and try and make my own classroom a 'dream'. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.Fran Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07935088780461825341noreply@blogger.com